Amazing Iceman
Mar 22, 04:46 PM
well said. it's hard to even have a civil conversation here anymore. not sure what the majority of the age group here is now, but the discussions since i've joined here just a couple of years ago seem to be on the decline with immaturity. there are a handful of respectful and open minded people who do back up their thoughts with details and sense, but you'd have to wade through a lot of "fanboy" (i hate that term) jargon to sift the ones worth replying to.
True. The debate gets too personal, and starts loosing credibility after a while.
If this was a live debate, there would have been a shootout already.
Cool off people, and provide solid arguments to sustain your point.
True. The debate gets too personal, and starts loosing credibility after a while.
If this was a live debate, there would have been a shootout already.
Cool off people, and provide solid arguments to sustain your point.
*LTD*
Mar 26, 07:13 PM
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How does Rosetta hold back forward progress exactly? It's just small extension for the OS. It's not like it's Classic.
It's crap that is no longer needed.
Stuff that can be cut out but isn't, holds back progress. Progress = cutting and more cutting and then perfecting what's left over.
Rosetta isn't necessary to run today's apps (or even apps released over the past 2-3 years.) So it needs to go.
How does Rosetta hold back forward progress exactly? It's just small extension for the OS. It's not like it's Classic.
It's crap that is no longer needed.
Stuff that can be cut out but isn't, holds back progress. Progress = cutting and more cutting and then perfecting what's left over.
Rosetta isn't necessary to run today's apps (or even apps released over the past 2-3 years.) So it needs to go.
Lord Blackadder
Nov 28, 09:49 PM
It would be a nice idea.
Nice. idea. For whom, you greedy scum? :mad:
**** them and their greed. I shall say no more.
Nice. idea. For whom, you greedy scum? :mad:
**** them and their greed. I shall say no more.
Evangelion
Aug 17, 03:58 AM
But it's not faster. Slower actually than the G5 at some apps. What's everyone looking at anyway? I'm pretty unimpressed. Other than Adobe's usage of cache (AE is a cache lover and will use all of it, hence the faster performance).
But the actual xeon processors are only as fast as the G5 processors. Look at the average specs... the 2.66 machines are only a teeny bit faster than the G5s except in a few apps like filemaker. But not in the biggies like Final Cut Pro where it actually appears that mhz for mhz the G5 is a faster machine hands down!
There were handful of benchmarks. If we disregard the non-universal apps, we get this:
Xeon is a lot faster in iMovie
In FCP it's a bit faster
in FileMaker it's A LOT faster
in Cinebench it's considerably faster
Are those really such a bad results? The apps that it was slower in (but not by much) were running through emulation, is that a fair comparison?
Looking at the other reviews around the net, it becomes quite obvious that apart from few apps, Mac Pro is considerably faster tham PowerMac. In compiling for example, it walks all over the G5
But the actual xeon processors are only as fast as the G5 processors. Look at the average specs... the 2.66 machines are only a teeny bit faster than the G5s except in a few apps like filemaker. But not in the biggies like Final Cut Pro where it actually appears that mhz for mhz the G5 is a faster machine hands down!
There were handful of benchmarks. If we disregard the non-universal apps, we get this:
Xeon is a lot faster in iMovie
In FCP it's a bit faster
in FileMaker it's A LOT faster
in Cinebench it's considerably faster
Are those really such a bad results? The apps that it was slower in (but not by much) were running through emulation, is that a fair comparison?
Looking at the other reviews around the net, it becomes quite obvious that apart from few apps, Mac Pro is considerably faster tham PowerMac. In compiling for example, it walks all over the G5
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 03:40 PM
So how many people in the world do you think have cell phones? Everyone?!?! Just doing a quick Google search, there were about 1.1billion cell users in the world in 2004. So, maybe it's up to 1.5 - 1.75bil now?
Now if there's ~700mil people in the EU with a workforce just under 400mil strong and internet usage is about 300mil. Ya, it would seem reasonable that roughly the same number of people use cell phones. Do you have a better estimate? I'm sure there's a lot of elderly, children, and poor in the 700mil that use cell phones, eh?
What about India, Japan, China? First of all, India and China have median incomes that are FAR less than the US or EU... so I doubt they have a relatively large cellular user base.
And oh, let me check with my cubemate.... yep, CDMA is used in parts of China.
Well, I dont know where to begin... I work in science and you have to trust me when I say that you can't deduct anything from the "facts" you have. You are guessing.
The fact is that GSM has 81% of the world market... and that makes cdma a small market.
Now if there's ~700mil people in the EU with a workforce just under 400mil strong and internet usage is about 300mil. Ya, it would seem reasonable that roughly the same number of people use cell phones. Do you have a better estimate? I'm sure there's a lot of elderly, children, and poor in the 700mil that use cell phones, eh?
What about India, Japan, China? First of all, India and China have median incomes that are FAR less than the US or EU... so I doubt they have a relatively large cellular user base.
And oh, let me check with my cubemate.... yep, CDMA is used in parts of China.
Well, I dont know where to begin... I work in science and you have to trust me when I say that you can't deduct anything from the "facts" you have. You are guessing.
The fact is that GSM has 81% of the world market... and that makes cdma a small market.
LillieDesigns
Jul 27, 12:14 PM
i think it's safe to assume that Apple will be making an effort to differentiate the Macbooks and the MBP. As of right now, other than the video card, and backlit keyboard, there doesnt seem like a solid reason to fork over an extra 800-1200 bucks. i expect Apple to use the core2 for this purpose. put merom only in the mbp, and force the power-hungry users to upgrade to the pro model.
this would be smart because as of right now the mac book pro doesnt WOW me over the macbook. Do you think the "core 3" will also have the same pin structure as the 2's?
this would be smart because as of right now the mac book pro doesnt WOW me over the macbook. Do you think the "core 3" will also have the same pin structure as the 2's?
Zadillo
Aug 27, 05:19 PM
hmmm... the funny part is that it's been done to death.* that's the bit.* i guess you don't see it as funny.* ever heard of a reoccuring joke with a little aphormism mixed in?
But that's the problem. The joke was that it was done to death...... but THAT part has been done to death too, which is why most people no longer find it to be all that funny.
I'm happy that some people still seem to be able to find humor in it, but that doesn't mean that the people who no longer find it to be funny just don't "get it". It just means that the lifespan of this joke has long since passed for many people.
But that's the problem. The joke was that it was done to death...... but THAT part has been done to death too, which is why most people no longer find it to be all that funny.
I'm happy that some people still seem to be able to find humor in it, but that doesn't mean that the people who no longer find it to be funny just don't "get it". It just means that the lifespan of this joke has long since passed for many people.
leekohler
Mar 3, 11:13 PM
no one is preventing you from living with the person you love or having sex with him
Nope, you just want to make sure that we can't have access to the same protections for our families that you do. How silly of me to want that.
Invalid because it endorses something that could cause the collapse of society
Not at all. Gay people raise kids just as well as straight people- that's been proven. And we do have families. There is no risk of destroying society. The question is valid. Answer it.
Nope, you just want to make sure that we can't have access to the same protections for our families that you do. How silly of me to want that.
Invalid because it endorses something that could cause the collapse of society
Not at all. Gay people raise kids just as well as straight people- that's been proven. And we do have families. There is no risk of destroying society. The question is valid. Answer it.
edenwaith
Jul 14, 04:34 PM
ONLY DDR2-667?!? :confused:
Come on Apple, you'd BETTER use DDR2-800 or I'll be pissed! :mad:
No, they better equip every new Mac with 10 Terabytes of DDR9-5000 RAM! And they will also include a Raid 5 configuration at 20 Exabytes! And the entire machine will be smaller than your fingernail.
But it will then come equipped with a 16Mhz Motorola 680x0 chip.
Come on Apple, you'd BETTER use DDR2-800 or I'll be pissed! :mad:
No, they better equip every new Mac with 10 Terabytes of DDR9-5000 RAM! And they will also include a Raid 5 configuration at 20 Exabytes! And the entire machine will be smaller than your fingernail.
But it will then come equipped with a 16Mhz Motorola 680x0 chip.
regan
Aug 26, 05:58 PM
This sounds good to me. I am waiting/saving up for a new laptop replacement for my recently departed(moment of silence) ibook.
Even if i had the money, I was going to wait for the 2nd generation of the macbooks.
Santa Rosa sounds cool, but if the macbooks got the merom along with the MBPs in September, then I wouldn't wait for Santa Rosa and just nab one now.
However, if they don't go 64bit....then I may just wait till January, and get by without a laptop(gulp) for another 4-5 months.
Even if i had the money, I was going to wait for the 2nd generation of the macbooks.
Santa Rosa sounds cool, but if the macbooks got the merom along with the MBPs in September, then I wouldn't wait for Santa Rosa and just nab one now.
However, if they don't go 64bit....then I may just wait till January, and get by without a laptop(gulp) for another 4-5 months.
QCassidy352
Apr 6, 10:27 AM
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I would love to see a 15" laptop with no optical drive, with the specs and price somewhere between the MBA and MBP.
A 15" MBA (no optical) with dedicated graphics is my ideal Mac. It'll happen someday...
I would love to see a 15" laptop with no optical drive, with the specs and price somewhere between the MBA and MBP.
A 15" MBA (no optical) with dedicated graphics is my ideal Mac. It'll happen someday...
alent1234
Apr 11, 02:42 PM
That is what the 49$ 3GS is for...
My buddy just got one the other day. Why cause it was 49 bucks...
and i got an HTC INspire for $20 that is better than my old 3GS
My buddy just got one the other day. Why cause it was 49 bucks...
and i got an HTC INspire for $20 that is better than my old 3GS
mwswami
Jul 23, 07:12 PM
That's what Kentsfield is for. It is a single quad core chip, which is expected to fit into the cheaper motherboards for Conroe instead of the much more expensive motherboards for Woodcrest.
Two recent quotes: On their earnings release, Apple said that they are on track to finish the Intel transition by the end of the year. And Intel said that Kentsfield will be available in the last quarter of this year. A single chip Woodcrest is nonsense (much more expensive than Conroe at same performance). Complete line with dual chip times dual core Woodcrest is too expensive for the cheapest mode. By waiting for Kentsfield, Apple can avoid designing two motherboards and still have quad cores.
So you don't expect the Mac Pro at WWDC?? Or only a dual core version using Conroe?
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.
So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.
Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.
Two recent quotes: On their earnings release, Apple said that they are on track to finish the Intel transition by the end of the year. And Intel said that Kentsfield will be available in the last quarter of this year. A single chip Woodcrest is nonsense (much more expensive than Conroe at same performance). Complete line with dual chip times dual core Woodcrest is too expensive for the cheapest mode. By waiting for Kentsfield, Apple can avoid designing two motherboards and still have quad cores.
So you don't expect the Mac Pro at WWDC?? Or only a dual core version using Conroe?
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.
So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.
Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.
Leoff
Sep 19, 07:28 AM
Sorry but I've heard this so many times it gets pretty annoying. Dont assume to know what ppl want to use their Macbooks for. I want to use it for music production which can be very intensive on the processor, other people for graphics etc where a few seconds shaved off processing times when added up many times can make quite a difference to productivity.
Also, when the new chips come out it will instantly knock a chunk off the resell value - yes this is always the way with technology but buying when an update is coming soon seems silly.
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
Also, when the new chips come out it will instantly knock a chunk off the resell value - yes this is always the way with technology but buying when an update is coming soon seems silly.
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
sunfast
Aug 17, 09:07 AM
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
Forgive the � for those that think in $.
Aren't there 2 chips though?
Forgive the � for those that think in $.
Aren't there 2 chips though?
LegendKillerUK
Apr 6, 11:37 AM
You sure as hell can.
By game I mean a modern title at full settings. Otherwise it's just 'making do'.
By game I mean a modern title at full settings. Otherwise it's just 'making do'.
DrRadon
Mar 22, 01:11 PM
Blackberry playbook = The IPad 2 killer - you heard it here first.
Look at the specs, their greater or equal to the iPad 2 with the exception of battery life.
Looking at these specs will be awsome while iPad users actualy have a ******** of Apps to actualy use their specs on. :rolleyes:
Look at the specs, their greater or equal to the iPad 2 with the exception of battery life.
Looking at these specs will be awsome while iPad users actualy have a ******** of Apps to actualy use their specs on. :rolleyes:
onigami
Apr 10, 06:22 AM
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, and it ain't the whole fact that Apple pushed aside every professional vid company just to announce their product. It's that they never have announced pro-level products at/alongside professional trade shows prior to this. CES is one thing, but I don't ever recall Apple ever placing any presence at/during NAB or AES (the latter of which they would present something related to the Logic Pro) before. Even for egotists like Apple, this is completely unusual. In recent years, new makes of Logic and Final Cut have dropped with no warning whatsoever. Furthermore, this is a Usergroup meetup. This lacks the professionalism of a standard Apple product announcement.
Besides, why would anyone from the upper ranks of Apple (Ives, Cook, Jobs) even meet with a professional usergroup? I don't recall any of those guys ever talking about Final Cut or Logic in any Apple event, precisely because they are niche products that target an audience a hundredth, maybe a thousandth the size of the main Apple demographic. You don't need to utilize executive charisma to sell these products.
Finally, while I don't know whether software stocks are different from hardware stocks, I just checked Apple's website, and FCS, FCE, and FCServer are readily available for shipping within 24 hours.
My theory? This isn't Apple, but a very elaborate prank being pulled by some con artists.
(also: Why the hell is there an idle timer that automatically logs me out after 10 minutes of inactivity?)
Besides, why would anyone from the upper ranks of Apple (Ives, Cook, Jobs) even meet with a professional usergroup? I don't recall any of those guys ever talking about Final Cut or Logic in any Apple event, precisely because they are niche products that target an audience a hundredth, maybe a thousandth the size of the main Apple demographic. You don't need to utilize executive charisma to sell these products.
Finally, while I don't know whether software stocks are different from hardware stocks, I just checked Apple's website, and FCS, FCE, and FCServer are readily available for shipping within 24 hours.
My theory? This isn't Apple, but a very elaborate prank being pulled by some con artists.
(also: Why the hell is there an idle timer that automatically logs me out after 10 minutes of inactivity?)
z4n3
Apr 6, 03:27 AM
Forget about new Macs! just give us FCS A.S.A.P. :eek:
iScott428
Mar 22, 02:04 PM
well, if you are going to tell people their posts make them look stupid, perhaps you should consider your own, and read a dictionary before throwing around three syllable words. Your use of the word "eloquent" is incorrect. "eloquent" is not a word that applies to a software operating system.
Eloquent: The quality of artistry and persuasiveness in speech or writing; the practice or art of using language with fluency and aptness; fluent, forcible, elegant or persuasive speaking in public.
As in; "your post was not eloquent".
pwn
Eloquent: The quality of artistry and persuasiveness in speech or writing; the practice or art of using language with fluency and aptness; fluent, forcible, elegant or persuasive speaking in public.
As in; "your post was not eloquent".
pwn
mwswami
Jul 22, 09:53 AM
(Cloverton or Clovertown?)
It's Clovertown.
Here is a link to description of the Intel Core Microarchitecture (http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture/coremicro/) on Intel.com. Search for Clovertown.
It's Clovertown.
Here is a link to description of the Intel Core Microarchitecture (http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture/coremicro/) on Intel.com. Search for Clovertown.
DJsteveSD
Mar 31, 02:59 PM
you keep using that word� (http://cl.ly/0x032o272d2a3g1t1k3d)
lol
lol
Iconoclysm
Apr 19, 08:38 PM
The point is no one will ever confuse this with Apple's iPhone... But what Samsung is doing now is another story.
If you look at each item that Apple takes exception with individually it seems silly, but when you put them all together in a single device it's a twin to the iPhone... An iClone.:rolleyes:
Actually, the point was that Samsung did not have a grid of icons on the F700 until after the iPhone released...so Apple did not copy Samsung. Eventually, what you say is true.
If you look at each item that Apple takes exception with individually it seems silly, but when you put them all together in a single device it's a twin to the iPhone... An iClone.:rolleyes:
Actually, the point was that Samsung did not have a grid of icons on the F700 until after the iPhone released...so Apple did not copy Samsung. Eventually, what you say is true.
skunk
Apr 27, 01:17 PM
(insert here where some smart-A responds with "slavery?" or something equally inapplicable)Me first! I'll do it!
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