motulist
Aug 11, 12:49 PM
... It may launch this month, or a year from now.
I think you misunderstood. By "delays that could set it back as far as next year," I interpret that to mean calendar year. So my reading of what the rumor is suggesting is that at the most it'll be released sometime within the first 3 months of or 7 months from now.
I think you misunderstood. By "delays that could set it back as far as next year," I interpret that to mean calendar year. So my reading of what the rumor is suggesting is that at the most it'll be released sometime within the first 3 months of or 7 months from now.
Tanglewood
Aug 7, 03:46 PM
I guess I would be underwhelmed if I had mistaken WWDC for Macworld or something, and expected a bunch of major new product announcements.
I agree. Release Mac Pro and just enough of Leopard to keep us going until January. Besides whats the point in Apple showing its entire hand with a release window 7-9 months out?
I do like that they'll be updating Mail. Having templates will be handy for what I use the program for.
I agree. Release Mac Pro and just enough of Leopard to keep us going until January. Besides whats the point in Apple showing its entire hand with a release window 7-9 months out?
I do like that they'll be updating Mail. Having templates will be handy for what I use the program for.
NT1440
Mar 23, 08:38 AM
. Wow, completely clicked on the wrong tab.....
ryanw
Aug 25, 05:05 PM
The last time two times I walked in an apple store I saw a line of several people holding items waiting to purchase with no available staff personal at the counter. I saw one of them finally put the goods on the counter and walked away. Trying to get your computer problem fixed in-store is like trying to get into an exclusive day spa. I think the "genius bar" and the "geniuses" should seriously be renamed. Their arrogance and inability to fix anything in a timely manor is horrifying.
NoSmokingBandit
Sep 1, 12:40 PM
I'd rather have 1000 equally modeled cars, but when you are dealing with 1000 cars it has to be a touch decision to make. Even so, they wouldnt have to redo anything, just copy a higher res model into the resource server.
The premium cars sure are gorgeous though.
The premium cars sure are gorgeous though.
Mr_Ed
Mar 31, 04:33 PM
Gruber is rarely accurate in his conclusions, and this time is no exception.
None of what is happening smacks of being a "bait-and-switch" as he claims. That would've required extremely clever pre-planning years ago on the part of Google.
Instead, it's got all the hallmarks of too little pre-planning.
Anyone with experience dealing with large projects can see that Rubin has belatedly come to realize that things were getting out of control. Now he is goofing up trying to take full control himself instead of doing the smart thing and first getting a consensus from the OHA members.
I don't think it's about planning. After all, how much "planning" do you need to do if your philosophy behind the product is basically " open it up so everyone can contribute and see where it goes"? The point most here are making is that the age-old "open" vs. "closed" ecosystem argument, which has repeatedly been used to criticize Apple over many years, is now looking more and more as if Apple was right all along. In this case what you call "lack of planning," I call lack of much thought at all. I for one don't have much faith in most things accomplished by committee, and that is the basic flaw in most "open" systems.
The "bait and switch" reference applies in that many of those who jumped on the Android bandwagon now find they don't have nearly as much control as they thought they would, as evidenced by the complaints from that community.
None of what is happening smacks of being a "bait-and-switch" as he claims. That would've required extremely clever pre-planning years ago on the part of Google.
Instead, it's got all the hallmarks of too little pre-planning.
Anyone with experience dealing with large projects can see that Rubin has belatedly come to realize that things were getting out of control. Now he is goofing up trying to take full control himself instead of doing the smart thing and first getting a consensus from the OHA members.
I don't think it's about planning. After all, how much "planning" do you need to do if your philosophy behind the product is basically " open it up so everyone can contribute and see where it goes"? The point most here are making is that the age-old "open" vs. "closed" ecosystem argument, which has repeatedly been used to criticize Apple over many years, is now looking more and more as if Apple was right all along. In this case what you call "lack of planning," I call lack of much thought at all. I for one don't have much faith in most things accomplished by committee, and that is the basic flaw in most "open" systems.
The "bait and switch" reference applies in that many of those who jumped on the Android bandwagon now find they don't have nearly as much control as they thought they would, as evidenced by the complaints from that community.
aaronb
Sep 19, 10:51 AM
So the Apple crew is simply waiting on marketing until they release these new laptops? Exactly how much marketing needs to go into a slight update? I understand that these are 64-bit processors but the average consumer has no clue what that means to begin with. Waiting for the marketing crew seems really strange to me, should they have not already been ready for this transition by now? Just make a box on the front page that has a picture of a MBP and let it say "the fastest just got faster" or something.
waldobushman
Mar 26, 04:40 PM
It's this mentality that makes me smile.
Without knowing any of the details as to what the final shipping version will be, mezmerized (hypnotized ?) by Apple, enthusiasts are ready to pay whatever Apple demands for the product.
I get to sit back without any effort, and watch with delight as they pour the money into Apples coffers. In turn, my vast amount of Apple stock climbs higher & higher as they brag about Apples Billions.
Their blind trust pays me well. Thanks Apple !
Of course one should upgrade to the next OS X release. Apple makes substantial changes in each major release; if not functionally, then in refactoring code for future enhancements. I'll wait until it is known to be stable, and know that the software I use will run under the new version.
Apple is not MS. I stayed with Windows XP until Windows 7 was reasonably stable. The only reason to not move to the new OS would be lack of support for current hardware. Not likely to happen with Lion.
Without knowing any of the details as to what the final shipping version will be, mezmerized (hypnotized ?) by Apple, enthusiasts are ready to pay whatever Apple demands for the product.
I get to sit back without any effort, and watch with delight as they pour the money into Apples coffers. In turn, my vast amount of Apple stock climbs higher & higher as they brag about Apples Billions.
Their blind trust pays me well. Thanks Apple !
Of course one should upgrade to the next OS X release. Apple makes substantial changes in each major release; if not functionally, then in refactoring code for future enhancements. I'll wait until it is known to be stable, and know that the software I use will run under the new version.
Apple is not MS. I stayed with Windows XP until Windows 7 was reasonably stable. The only reason to not move to the new OS would be lack of support for current hardware. Not likely to happen with Lion.
milo
Aug 17, 09:21 AM
You're right. I'm extremely unimpressed that the fastest xeon only days old is actually slower mhz for mhz than a G5 that is pushing 4 year old technology. Really sad.
But overall it's not. Whenever you change chips, you'll probably always find a benchmark that favors the old one. Just because one app isn't faster doesn't mean the new chip is slower.
But it's not faster. Slower actually than the G5 at some apps. What's everyone looking at anyway? I'm pretty unimpressed. Other than Adobe's usage of cache (AE is a cache lover and will use all of it, hence the faster performance).
But the actual xeon processors are only as fast as the G5 processors. Look at the average specs... the 2.66 machines are only a teeny bit faster than the G5s except in a few apps like filemaker. But not in the biggies like Final Cut Pro where it actually appears that mhz for mhz the G5 is a faster machine hands down!
What are you talking about? The xeon is faster in every native benchmark, the only exception is one render where the slower xeon tied the G5. If you do indeed look at the average specs, the xeons blow away the G5.
Looks like the Xeons got killed by the G5 in Word in their tests.
Because it's running under rosetta, ram has nothing to do with it.
It's odd, seeing as Mac's are still the choice for many musicians that some kind of specs are never given that would be of interest to musicians. The released figures don't do much for me. I'd like to know the polyphony improvements say for Kontakt under both systems in Digital Performer 5.
There have been Logic benchmarks elsewhere, and they're pretty impressive. 1.4-1.5x improvements, pretty nice considering how fast the quad is already for audio plugins.
But overall it's not. Whenever you change chips, you'll probably always find a benchmark that favors the old one. Just because one app isn't faster doesn't mean the new chip is slower.
But it's not faster. Slower actually than the G5 at some apps. What's everyone looking at anyway? I'm pretty unimpressed. Other than Adobe's usage of cache (AE is a cache lover and will use all of it, hence the faster performance).
But the actual xeon processors are only as fast as the G5 processors. Look at the average specs... the 2.66 machines are only a teeny bit faster than the G5s except in a few apps like filemaker. But not in the biggies like Final Cut Pro where it actually appears that mhz for mhz the G5 is a faster machine hands down!
What are you talking about? The xeon is faster in every native benchmark, the only exception is one render where the slower xeon tied the G5. If you do indeed look at the average specs, the xeons blow away the G5.
Looks like the Xeons got killed by the G5 in Word in their tests.
Because it's running under rosetta, ram has nothing to do with it.
It's odd, seeing as Mac's are still the choice for many musicians that some kind of specs are never given that would be of interest to musicians. The released figures don't do much for me. I'd like to know the polyphony improvements say for Kontakt under both systems in Digital Performer 5.
There have been Logic benchmarks elsewhere, and they're pretty impressive. 1.4-1.5x improvements, pretty nice considering how fast the quad is already for audio plugins.
BaldiMac
Apr 6, 04:02 PM
It seems nobody learned from Apple's iPhone debacle:
"Hahaha, look at Android they only ship 1/10 of iPhones!!!" - 12 months later: "Uh, ok, Android outsells iOS 3:1 but Apple only ships 1 phone!!!!"
Now with tablets:
"Hahaha, look at the Android tablets, they only ship 1/10 of iPads." - 12 months later: Well you know...
Or:
"Hahaha, iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1" - 10 years later: iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1.
Apple has had a market share over 50% in three significant markets: iPods, digital music downloads, and "media tablets." They still have over 50% in all of those markets. Heck, you can probably throw mobile device apps in their aw well. There's no reason to think iPads will play out the same as iPhones.
"Hahaha, look at Android they only ship 1/10 of iPhones!!!" - 12 months later: "Uh, ok, Android outsells iOS 3:1 but Apple only ships 1 phone!!!!"
Now with tablets:
"Hahaha, look at the Android tablets, they only ship 1/10 of iPads." - 12 months later: Well you know...
Or:
"Hahaha, iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1" - 10 years later: iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1.
Apple has had a market share over 50% in three significant markets: iPods, digital music downloads, and "media tablets." They still have over 50% in all of those markets. Heck, you can probably throw mobile device apps in their aw well. There's no reason to think iPads will play out the same as iPhones.
Sydde
Mar 20, 06:56 PM
But they have worked so hard, all these decades, to diminish the "one man, one vote" to something much less than that.
Well, you see, it is not about the one-man-one-vote thing. That works just fine. You just have to make sure you keep the wrong men from voting.
Well, you see, it is not about the one-man-one-vote thing. That works just fine. You just have to make sure you keep the wrong men from voting.
mashinhead
Aug 18, 09:34 AM
if clovertown is pin compatable it will work.
I know if it is it will work, what i'm asking is, is it? Or is that not known at this time?
I know if it is it will work, what i'm asking is, is it? Or is that not known at this time?
Teddy's
Jul 20, 12:47 PM
"The-Most-Powerful-machine-more-powerful-than-Pentium1-2-3-4-Merom-Conroe-Norah-Or-was-it-Jonah-or-Yonah-Xeon-Neon-Freon-Argon-Vista-Panther-JamesBond-MrBean-Xmen-Batman-and-Jesus-put-together"
And more famous than the Beatles...
And more famous than the Beatles...
akm3
Apr 5, 10:17 PM
About time. FCP is aging poorly. The engine is still Carbon and based around the old QT, which means that a lot of functions only use two cores at the most. I think we'll finally see Apple seriously leveraging GCD, OpenCL, etc here, although don't expect video compression to use OpenCL if the lousy quality of CUDA encodes is any indicator. Maybe Apple will add support for QuickSync on Sandy Bridge.
Also, Compressor is a damned joke. When your "Pro" software encoder gives you less options and lower quality with longer render times than free alternatives, you really need to go back to the drawing board. Yes, a lot of folks use hardware encoders, but really, if you're going to include a software encoder, at least make it as good as free software...
Is for example Handbrake better than compressor? i.e. higher quality h.264 files and/or smaller file sizes and/or faster encodes?
Also, Compressor is a damned joke. When your "Pro" software encoder gives you less options and lower quality with longer render times than free alternatives, you really need to go back to the drawing board. Yes, a lot of folks use hardware encoders, but really, if you're going to include a software encoder, at least make it as good as free software...
Is for example Handbrake better than compressor? i.e. higher quality h.264 files and/or smaller file sizes and/or faster encodes?
law guy
Aug 6, 04:28 PM
As Apple applied for the trademark, it will not be approved.
It is up to Apple how they want to proceed. A fight that can't win, no matter how much money they have.
Mac Pro has been the premier Mac dealer in the same county as Apple since 1988. Out of all the names for this new line of computers, why choose one that they know they cannot have.
We are already getting countless support calls for the macbook pro. It seems they assume we made them When we can't help them, they seem to get very upset.
Mac Pro is in a position to file for a court order not to release any computer that bears our name.
So get ready WWDC, we will be watching.
Mike Ajlouny
President
MAC-PRO.com
Mike - I'm sure Apple had their IP counsel do an IP search prior to deciding on any names and filing for registration. That is the first and most basic step and is not going going to escape the experienced folks at whatever large firm Apple is using for IP these days. A TM approval from the USPTO doesn't take long at all, 10 to 18 months. Are you operating under the impression that Apple's registration hasn't already been approved? Did you protest the trademark during the time provided for the filing of protests during the trademark registration process? If you've registered mac-pro in the past, did you follow all the guidelines (e.g. providing notice that you were using the term within 6 months of your approval to the USPTO or request a six month extension with USPTO, etc.) have you renewed the registration? If you did file, had it approved, provided the notices of use to the the USPTO, and protested and lost on Apple's application, a bid for a TRO will be interesting as - assuming that last list of events - there are no rights being infringed. Of course, I'm not an IP att'y and there's a long list of assumptions here, and I'm sure if you did have an issue, a post on the MR forum wouldn't be your means of pursuing it.
It is up to Apple how they want to proceed. A fight that can't win, no matter how much money they have.
Mac Pro has been the premier Mac dealer in the same county as Apple since 1988. Out of all the names for this new line of computers, why choose one that they know they cannot have.
We are already getting countless support calls for the macbook pro. It seems they assume we made them When we can't help them, they seem to get very upset.
Mac Pro is in a position to file for a court order not to release any computer that bears our name.
So get ready WWDC, we will be watching.
Mike Ajlouny
President
MAC-PRO.com
Mike - I'm sure Apple had their IP counsel do an IP search prior to deciding on any names and filing for registration. That is the first and most basic step and is not going going to escape the experienced folks at whatever large firm Apple is using for IP these days. A TM approval from the USPTO doesn't take long at all, 10 to 18 months. Are you operating under the impression that Apple's registration hasn't already been approved? Did you protest the trademark during the time provided for the filing of protests during the trademark registration process? If you've registered mac-pro in the past, did you follow all the guidelines (e.g. providing notice that you were using the term within 6 months of your approval to the USPTO or request a six month extension with USPTO, etc.) have you renewed the registration? If you did file, had it approved, provided the notices of use to the the USPTO, and protested and lost on Apple's application, a bid for a TRO will be interesting as - assuming that last list of events - there are no rights being infringed. Of course, I'm not an IP att'y and there's a long list of assumptions here, and I'm sure if you did have an issue, a post on the MR forum wouldn't be your means of pursuing it.
Multimedia
Aug 17, 11:43 AM
My main interest is in FCP the FCP results.
On a fixed budget, does anyone know the advantage/disadvantage of going for the 2.0Ghz with 1900XT over 2.6Ghz with the std video card?The 2GHz Mac Pro is 25% slower while the price is only 8.75% lower when you also lower the order $90 by making the HD a 160 instead of the 250 stock. 300GB SATA/300 drives are only $80 now. So I think it isn't really worth ordering the 2GHz model for that much less power for that little less money. For most of Final Cut Pro work you will not need the fancy video card. Motion is tne only thing that ATI card will help with. If you won't be using Motion a lot, the stock Mac Pro card will be fine.
The 3GHz model is just the opposite - 12.78% more power for 33% more money. Time is money has to be the reason for ordering the 3GHz model.
On a fixed budget, does anyone know the advantage/disadvantage of going for the 2.0Ghz with 1900XT over 2.6Ghz with the std video card?The 2GHz Mac Pro is 25% slower while the price is only 8.75% lower when you also lower the order $90 by making the HD a 160 instead of the 250 stock. 300GB SATA/300 drives are only $80 now. So I think it isn't really worth ordering the 2GHz model for that much less power for that little less money. For most of Final Cut Pro work you will not need the fancy video card. Motion is tne only thing that ATI card will help with. If you won't be using Motion a lot, the stock Mac Pro card will be fine.
The 3GHz model is just the opposite - 12.78% more power for 33% more money. Time is money has to be the reason for ordering the 3GHz model.
Piggie
Apr 8, 07:13 AM
I don't know if anyone has explained Best Buy's actions at all and why they would hold back on selling stock the have yet.
I run a branch for a construction supply company and am judged based on daily and monthly goals.
It doesn't matter if I do three times my monthly goal this month if I don't hit goal at all next month. It doesn't make sense but it is the way business works. I have held orders that come in at the end of the month for the beginning of the next if I have already hit this month's goal so that I get a head start on next month's.
For the manager at Best Buy he probably felt that it served him better to the corporate big wigs if he hit his goal every day rather than pass his goal one day and not reach it the next.
Is it best for the COMPANY or for the CONSUMER? No... But in this world of sales and numbers managers tend to do what will make their bosses happy, which is to make sure that when they check the numbers on the spreadsheet every day they hit their numbers and don't get yelled at.
100% agree with you and people need to realise how stupid people high up the ladder are, and out of touch with reality with these things, which then cause the behaviour you have explained to happen.
Actually by selling more than your expected quota this month may even end up with your expected quota being increased for future months.
Effectively shooting yourself in the foot.
To put it in it's simplest form, say someone paid you $5 to walk to the shops and buy them a pizza, and give you 15 mins for the journey. You go the task, get your $5 dollars and everyone is happy.
Now, once you decide to jog a little and arrive back in 10 mins, wow that's great, so much quicker. but from now on, will will only allow you 11 mins to get the pizza for the $5 payment.
Then you are silly enough to run a little one day and come back in just 5 mins, wow, this is an improvement. Head office have now decided to allow you 6 mins to perform the task for your $5.
How stupid are you, when you could have been walking all this time and still of had your original 15mins for your $5 payment.
Perhaps you could of run in just 5 mins, but you really should of stopped and chatted to someone for 10 mins to use your allowed time up.
I run a branch for a construction supply company and am judged based on daily and monthly goals.
It doesn't matter if I do three times my monthly goal this month if I don't hit goal at all next month. It doesn't make sense but it is the way business works. I have held orders that come in at the end of the month for the beginning of the next if I have already hit this month's goal so that I get a head start on next month's.
For the manager at Best Buy he probably felt that it served him better to the corporate big wigs if he hit his goal every day rather than pass his goal one day and not reach it the next.
Is it best for the COMPANY or for the CONSUMER? No... But in this world of sales and numbers managers tend to do what will make their bosses happy, which is to make sure that when they check the numbers on the spreadsheet every day they hit their numbers and don't get yelled at.
100% agree with you and people need to realise how stupid people high up the ladder are, and out of touch with reality with these things, which then cause the behaviour you have explained to happen.
Actually by selling more than your expected quota this month may even end up with your expected quota being increased for future months.
Effectively shooting yourself in the foot.
To put it in it's simplest form, say someone paid you $5 to walk to the shops and buy them a pizza, and give you 15 mins for the journey. You go the task, get your $5 dollars and everyone is happy.
Now, once you decide to jog a little and arrive back in 10 mins, wow that's great, so much quicker. but from now on, will will only allow you 11 mins to get the pizza for the $5 payment.
Then you are silly enough to run a little one day and come back in just 5 mins, wow, this is an improvement. Head office have now decided to allow you 6 mins to perform the task for your $5.
How stupid are you, when you could have been walking all this time and still of had your original 15mins for your $5 payment.
Perhaps you could of run in just 5 mins, but you really should of stopped and chatted to someone for 10 mins to use your allowed time up.
Danksi
Aug 15, 12:58 PM
Amazing.
However the FCP benchmark is disapointing, but I suppose that it may rise when the x1900 is installed and tested. Still, that photoshop test? I don't think ANYONE expected results that good from a non-UB program. At least I didn't...
My main interest is in FCP the FCP results.
On a fixed budget, does anyone know the advantage/disadvantage of going for the 2.0Ghz with 1900XT over 2.6Ghz with the std video card?
However the FCP benchmark is disapointing, but I suppose that it may rise when the x1900 is installed and tested. Still, that photoshop test? I don't think ANYONE expected results that good from a non-UB program. At least I didn't...
My main interest is in FCP the FCP results.
On a fixed budget, does anyone know the advantage/disadvantage of going for the 2.0Ghz with 1900XT over 2.6Ghz with the std video card?
caspersoong
Apr 13, 04:53 AM
The longer the wait, the less likely for my family to buy it.
jackc
Aug 8, 05:16 AM
I hope there's been a significant overhaul in Spotlight, beyond what Steve hinted at already. There was no video demo on the website, so hopefully that's the case. It was a really underdeveloped feature in Tiger.
DeVizardofOZ
Aug 26, 04:34 AM
Now apple is switching to Intel, They don't have that expirience that they had with the "old" powermacs...
...When the APPLE management decided to go with the INTEL platform, I considered that an intelligent decision, even though I think they should have kept the door open to AMD (maybe they have internally). At the same time they knew the possible problems, and should have done their soft- as well as hardware-homework, like R&D. Now it seems they do what MS has been doing for the past decades with their problem stricken OS's... let the poor consumer do it for them... Very bad policy!
I will buy a MBP, but will wait until things get better. By doing so I probably will get the benefit of an new formfactor, the MEROM, a faster FSB, maybe even a higher resolution on the 17"... We'll see.
...When the APPLE management decided to go with the INTEL platform, I considered that an intelligent decision, even though I think they should have kept the door open to AMD (maybe they have internally). At the same time they knew the possible problems, and should have done their soft- as well as hardware-homework, like R&D. Now it seems they do what MS has been doing for the past decades with their problem stricken OS's... let the poor consumer do it for them... Very bad policy!
I will buy a MBP, but will wait until things get better. By doing so I probably will get the benefit of an new formfactor, the MEROM, a faster FSB, maybe even a higher resolution on the 17"... We'll see.
Piggie
Apr 25, 02:33 PM
Perhaps this is like CCTV systems in the workplace.
You are allowed by law to fit them, however staff must be told they are there.
Perhaps it's just that the public need to be made away this is being done, and not done secretly. If people knew, then this would be a non story in the 1st place.
You are allowed by law to fit them, however staff must be told they are there.
Perhaps it's just that the public need to be made away this is being done, and not done secretly. If people knew, then this would be a non story in the 1st place.
VanNess
Aug 5, 05:59 PM
Im glad we will be getting a bit of closure on monday, while I love the rumors its been getting a bit to much, im actively avoiding all mac related sites... I dont want to be the boy that spoilt his own Xmas! :D
Here, let me show you the art and science of rumoring (http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/), Apple-style.
Here, let me show you the art and science of rumoring (http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/), Apple-style.
AlligatorBloodz
Apr 8, 02:23 AM
Well right now I'm looking at both their online stores. Both sites have the Apple TV @ $99, so... uh.. Lol.
Wait ... I don't think I mentioned Best Buy paying customers to buy Apple products. I don't fully understand your post :/
What don't you get. Best buy gets the ATV2 from apple for $90, then sells it for $99. The same price apple sells it for. Best buy makes $10 or less on every atv2 they sell.
Also my point about the student discount was it wouldn't make sense for best buy to honor it if they lost money. It would make more sense not to sell it.
Wait ... I don't think I mentioned Best Buy paying customers to buy Apple products. I don't fully understand your post :/
What don't you get. Best buy gets the ATV2 from apple for $90, then sells it for $99. The same price apple sells it for. Best buy makes $10 or less on every atv2 they sell.
Also my point about the student discount was it wouldn't make sense for best buy to honor it if they lost money. It would make more sense not to sell it.
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